Convergence

[00:00:00] On this first episode of Convergence, we talk about getting the lawyers in,

[00:00:04] what is it okay to call yourself, being open to the universe, and what does that even mean,

[00:00:09] and what makes a project work. Clue, it's not how much you care about it.

[00:00:23] Oh, Brendan Hutchins, it has been, I would say three years, but I don't think we talk about

[00:00:30] it's that time that we don't talk about that one. So maybe four years,

[00:00:36] but it's nice to be on mic with you again. Likewise, brother. This is an honor.

[00:00:43] And we got to actually hang out and meet for the first time.

[00:00:46] That was incredible. And you were wearing the same shirt.

[00:00:49] And every day.

[00:00:52] And I got to say, that was the most tremendous experience. The whole trip was just fantastic,

[00:01:02] amazing. Finland, England, and Scotland, but staying with you, I was not expecting this

[00:01:10] full service tour guide experience of Birmingham. And it was just the greatest thing of all time.

[00:01:18] I've got the Cadbury world photos on my, on my fridge. And it's yeah, just a fantastic experience.

[00:01:29] Oh, well, now that we've got to know each other,

[00:01:33] should we, should we introduce ourselves? Yeah, go ahead. Why don't you, would you like to go

[00:01:39] first? Two gentlemen. I'm Brendan. I'm typically a home remodeler in Portland, Oregon.

[00:01:52] And while working, I listened to a lot of podcasts and got obsessed with them and started making

[00:01:57] them. And yeah, I've always been into audio recording and, and, and audio and music.

[00:02:06] And now I'm, I'm here as, as it happens at a crossroads, you know, coming up on my,

[00:02:14] on my 40 transition and looking at, at what I want to do with my life. And also, you know,

[00:02:21] being confronted with changes outside my control. And, and so now the things in my life are converging

[00:02:31] to get me to make a new spot for myself. So I'm here to talk about it and think about it and do

[00:02:40] about it and feel about it. Also a lot of feeling. Yes. I like the doing and feeling about it. That's

[00:02:46] good. Hi, I'm Mark Steadman. I met Brendan when we were working on a little project I had called

[00:02:56] which was a podcast platform. And we've been chums ever since. I have, I, I once,

[00:03:08] I copped some slack in a, in a networking group and I copped it for about three weeks because

[00:03:13] I was talking about myself and talking about podcasting because I thought it was a networking

[00:03:18] group. I should talk about what I do. And apparently that was the wrong thing to do.

[00:03:23] And so they made sort of light fun of me for three weeks. But you know, that's kind of,

[00:03:29] it's kind of, you know, if convergence is the word, that's, that's another convergence is,

[00:03:33] is I like how tech and creativity combine and combine and collide. And so that's the stuff that

[00:03:40] yeah, that really interests me. And I think we, the two of us over our numerous conversations

[00:03:45] over the years have sort of found areas where we go, Oh, me too. And that's really nice.

[00:03:50] Mm hmm. So you're at a crossroads. What, what does that look like?

[00:03:56] Well, um, so I've been running this remodeling company for 14 years now and it's, uh, man,

[00:04:04] it's paid the bills. It's, it's been easy. It's been, it's been fun. I, you know, I made it myself,

[00:04:10] um, and without really any, um, guidance or support, I just like was like, all right,

[00:04:17] I'll just make a website, start remodeling people's homes, figure out how to do it on my own.

[00:04:21] And, and, um, you know, I had some, my, my, my dad used to flip houses. So I was, I understood

[00:04:27] what house, what remodels kind of looked like. I had a lot of expanders in that area of, of,

[00:04:34] um, safety and the knowledge that, Oh, like this can happen. Um, but I didn't, I didn't have too

[00:04:42] many mentors or anything. I just kind of jumped into it. That's the way I do a lot of things

[00:04:47] really. And, um, and now I've gotten to, I've, I've, uh, recently and, and, and this, this,

[00:04:56] this business has been very successful. Like it's just been a one man shop. It's just been me

[00:05:02] doing all the work, but it's, it's kept me super busy. Uh, and I took my first vacation at 14 years

[00:05:11] in because I was just so busy and not, not because I couldn't afford it, but because I had a lot of

[00:05:16] work to do and it was, it was fun. I enjoyed it. Uh, and I say, I say that in past tense and it's

[00:05:22] still, I still enjoy it, but, um, recently had a, recently had a situation where a client was

[00:05:31] not so happy and it's been, it's been extending to this level where it's my first ever potential

[00:05:39] lawsuit. And it like, we're about to go into mediation, which is the step before arbitration.

[00:05:46] And it's, uh, it's complicated. Cause, cause I mean, for one, I feel bad for the guy. Cause he,

[00:05:56] he really, we had, we had a contract. Uh, I did a bunch of, uh, work preparation for the project

[00:06:06] and that was defined in the contract. And then he cancels the contract before I come

[00:06:11] and actually do any of the actual construction. And then he wants, he wants the money back for

[00:06:18] the prep work that I did. And I'm like, no, you can't have that. That was money for

[00:06:23] work rendered. And so now, now we have to get lawyers involved. And that's not what I want

[00:06:30] to do with my life. I don't want to have lawyers involved. I just want to, I just want to be,

[00:06:36] I just want to exist, uh, happily without lawyers. And, and so it's making me, I mean,

[00:06:45] not only, not only is this potential lawsuit, um, have the very real possibility of just

[00:06:53] ending my company. If I, if I lose this lawsuit, there just is no more rockstar remodel that

[00:06:59] that's just what's going to happen. This thing I built for 14 years,

[00:07:05] it's out of my control. Like I, I feel like I have a good case. I feel like I'm

[00:07:08] probably going to win, but there is a possibility I don't. And then it's just,

[00:07:13] boom, it's over. Like there's, there's no other option. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna

[00:07:20] pull out a giant loan to pay this guy off. Um, and so, you know, I have the possibility of

[00:07:29] starting up a new remodeling company from scratch. Uh, sure I can do that. I have the

[00:07:33] skills for it. I have the client base that they're not going to care what, uh, the name

[00:07:37] of the company is. But over the past couple of years, I've also been, uh, working really hard

[00:07:45] in new areas. Um, I've been working on my health specifically and gone through a massive

[00:07:52] transformation, lost a ton of weight, uh, feel incredibly better, uh, inside and out. And

[00:08:03] I have such a desire and drive to share and to help and to guide that

[00:08:16] it's, it feels like the right time to possibly shift into something else, shift into, and I've

[00:08:22] been trying to explore what kind of things that's going to be like, I have a health coach who's,

[00:08:28] who's also a life coach. And I look at what she's doing and I'm like, maybe I could do that. Oh,

[00:08:35] that's really interesting. I would love, like, I could do one-on-one coaching with people and we

[00:08:39] could talk about their exact problems and this and that. And then, and then she goes into some

[00:08:44] and then she goes into some details about this health thing or that health thing. I'm like,

[00:08:49] whoa, she has a lot of, I mean, she's been doing this for over a decade, but like, whoa,

[00:08:52] she has a lot of knowledge I do not have. Like, whoa, that's some interesting context. Like I get

[00:08:57] really excited about this, this shiny thing. Like right now I'm super into fasting and a whole bunch

[00:09:02] of different aspects of that. And, and then she's like, well, yeah, but there's this and there's

[00:09:06] this and there's this. And I'm like, oh, wow. That's so complicated. There's so much to it.

[00:09:13] And, you know, that just takes time to get the knowledge and awareness of it. Which, you know,

[00:09:23] yeah, yeah, that, that, that can happen. I learned the proper techniques to do drywall. I can learn

[00:09:29] the proper techniques to, to do health things. And, you know, and the, and the, the beginning

[00:09:38] of the process is always, it's not always, but it's, it's to work on yourself and to do it for

[00:09:42] your own reasons, to, to have some sort of drive and motivation to actually learn it and actually

[00:09:50] understand it fully within yourself. And then, then that way you can do it outside yourself.

[00:09:56] At least that's how I, like a lot of advice for app developers is make something that you want

[00:10:03] and then see if there's a market for it or, or, or that kind of thing. Don't just make something

[00:10:08] because it can be made. And that's, that's what I'm, that's what I'm thinking about. And that's

[00:10:13] what I'm doing. Or that's just what I'm going towards. Kind of the, the different avenue

[00:10:22] than a health coach that I'm coming to is a bit more like a yoga instructor.

[00:10:31] And yoga has been a huge part of my healing journey.

[00:10:38] But it's a bit, it's a bit more than, it's kind of like the cross between a yoga instructor and

[00:10:43] a health coach. And in, in some circles that would be called a shaman because it's,

[00:10:51] um, uh, because I, I want to help somebody. I want to focus on not just the physical body and not

[00:11:01] just the mental body and not just the spiritual body, but all of them working together to heal,

[00:11:08] to heal together. Because I, I realized from my path that I couldn't just heal one. I tried so

[00:11:14] hard. I just cut out sugar. I just tried this diet and that diet and all these different singular

[00:11:19] body things, and it didn't work. And I tried, um, looking into religions and looking into

[00:11:25] philosophies and all that kind of stuff alone without trying to do anything else. And that

[00:11:28] didn't work. And I tried, um, uh, I tried different therapies and different, um, uh,

[00:11:36] practices for my mental health and all of those just alone. And that didn't work. And then when

[00:11:40] I finally tried all of them together, that was when I could actually make real transformations

[00:11:46] in my life. And I want, I want to like share that experience with people. I want to see

[00:11:56] how different everybody is and how, what their needs are and where their balance is to,

[00:12:05] to have, to have serenity, to have Buddhahood. I kind of feel like,

[00:12:10] I don't want, I don't want to say, I want to say it, but I don't want to say it, but I feel,

[00:12:15] I feel, I feel like a Buddha. I am so like this, this looming, this looming, uh, gigantic threat

[00:12:28] over me, um, a big financial threat, a huge threat to my livelihood and my safety. Um,

[00:12:41] and, and, and something that, that, that I'd built for over a decade, almost a decade and a half

[00:12:49] could just be taken away from me. And I am serene. I am just like, yep. You know what?

[00:12:55] Things come and go, you know, like you can't,

[00:13:01] you can't have a beginning without an end that, or else there's no, it doesn't begin. It just is.

[00:13:09] So, yeah. So I'm, I'm, uh, I'm not trying to be a Buddha, but I am, I'm, I'm thinking about trying

[00:13:15] to be a shaman. And I don't know what that, I don't know what that word means to you as much

[00:13:20] as it does to me. And also, uh, like I know that my wife, Margaret, she feels very differently

[00:13:28] about that word. She's like, I think I'll call you a yoga instructor. Cause to her, there's a

[00:13:34] bit of like, it's kind of an applied to Native American culture. And so it kind of feels

[00:13:39] appropriative. Um, where to me, I like that word is like ancient. And so it's like, wait, like it's

[00:13:45] that's just something Americans applied to Native Americans. And yes, I feel like it's

[00:13:51] older than, than that culture. Yeah. Yeah. I think my attitudes towards those kinds of words

[00:13:59] have that side of life, that more spiritual grounded, these things that have existed for

[00:14:09] countless generations that we've, you know, perhaps forgotten about or neglected.

[00:14:14] I have more space for them now than I ever did, but that still doesn't mean that I occasionally

[00:14:21] caucus, not caucus snook, but cock and eyebrow sometimes, you know, and, and, you know, I sort

[00:14:26] of, Ooh, is that, is that one way? Okay. Um, you know, I mean, I, I still refuse and I, I, I was

[00:14:37] going this way for a little bit, but I still kind of refuse to call myself a coach. It, you know,

[00:14:42] even though a fair amount of what I do is coachy, at least coachesque. Um, but I sort of bridle,

[00:14:52] um, at that word, because there is still some baggage around it. There is still some,

[00:15:00] some stuff around it that, that I can't quite reconcile.

[00:15:03] Sure. Um, did you, did you have like organized sports when you were a kid and have,

[00:15:07] have any coach issues or is that, is that some?

[00:15:10] No, no, I, I don't see, I think I did see it in that kind of coach. Yeah. Like it's sort of

[00:15:17] sporting metaphor before, but it's not a word we use as much here for, for sport.

[00:15:23] Oh, sure. Is that trainer? What's uh,

[00:15:25] Yeah, trainer. Um, I mean, yeah, team would have it. I don't know. Um, yeah, I, I, you know,

[00:15:34] clearly I, I just, I didn't do enough sport for it to really register. Um,

[00:15:40] but there's the sort of other, the other side of it, which is a little more akin to life coach

[00:15:47] and, and that kind of stuff, which can be ill-defined, but that's usually by bad practitioners.

[00:15:53] And that's the problem with a lot of this stuff is that we get these ideas, these,

[00:15:57] these maladjusted ideas from people because they are the people who give that stuff a bad name.

[00:16:02] Yeah, exactly. Had you ever had a, a, um, a life coach of any sort and were they any good?

[00:16:08] I've had a sort of business coach and, and often, um, they merge because especially as a small

[00:16:16] business, so much of, I'm really, really with anything like your life and your personality

[00:16:22] and the stuff that makes you bleeds into what you do. Uh, and, and who you, you know, if you

[00:16:27] lead people, then absolutely, you know, you're leading from your, from your personality and from

[00:16:32] the baggage that you have. Uh, and so I had someone, we, I think we come at, we came at

[00:16:39] things slightly differently in certain areas and it got to a point where I felt like the things

[00:16:47] that person wanted for me, weren't actually what I wanted at the time. And I think that

[00:16:53] person was very aligned with the longterm goals of what I could achieve and was a good cheerleader.

[00:17:00] But at the time I was like, I get that and I want to be there, but actually right now

[00:17:05] I need stability and I need to put food on the table. You know, my, uh, my dad was ill last year

[00:17:10] and I was getting into the moment of sort of thinking about transforming to a coach

[00:17:17] for sort of creative people with creative people who kind of identify as neurodivergent in some

[00:17:25] way. Um, and sort of helping them just, and I think what's interesting with a lot of this stuff is

[00:17:33] people have this idea that you have to lead from this decades of experience or whatever, or that

[00:17:39] you know all of these things. And actually so much of it, it isn't that it's, it's actually a lot more

[00:17:44] a partnership. It's just someone who's maybe a couple of steps ahead of you on the path.

[00:17:49] They still don't know the full direction, but maybe they've, you know, there are a couple

[00:17:53] of steps ahead and they're holding your hand and that is underrated, I think. Um, and that's kind

[00:18:00] of, I think what I was envisaging to a degree with, with what we're doing here is that it's,

[00:18:06] it's a way of showing, it's a way of showing a path for people and to say, this is a valid path,

[00:18:12] you know, because we're going to get into, certainly from my perspective, and I'm sure

[00:18:16] yours as well, like how we're actually going to build what we're building, how we're going to

[00:18:20] make what we're making and, and do things differently. Um, and it is, uh, I think a

[00:18:26] way of demonstrating to us as well as to other people, like you can do it this way. It's okay.

[00:18:31] There is a way forwards and we're finding this path where we're helping cut down some of the

[00:18:36] trees. Um, and, but we're not that many steps ahead of anyone else. And we're both building

[00:18:41] something new, but also we're, we're, we're doing, we're going to be doing it in different ways.

[00:18:48] I can, I can predict. Yeah, that was well, I think, yeah, that will be interesting to,

[00:18:55] to find out. So, um, okay. So I'll yeah. So I am in the process of building my second

[00:19:04] media hosting platform after, um, I, the, the, the last one was sold. Uh, so two years later,

[00:19:09] I'm at it again. Um, so for the two years after I'd sort of slightly wondered the wilderness a

[00:19:18] little bit, trying on different clothes and figuring out whether they fit and not really

[00:19:25] sort of finding things that I liked and finding elements that I enjoyed,

[00:19:29] but it wasn't until I was on holiday and actually the plane ride back. Um, I had this moment of

[00:19:38] going because I'd, I'd contemplated what would happen if you, you know, started doing the hosting

[00:19:44] thing again and created a little platform and made it small and made it this, that, and the other.

[00:19:49] Uh, and I'd sort of stopped and gone, no, no, I'm not doing it. I, you know, for all sorts of

[00:19:53] different reasons. And I think, I think it was enough time had passed and, and my brain was

[00:20:01] cleared, um, after a week drinking cocktails by the swimming pool that I, which is the really the

[00:20:09] first time I've, I've had like an actual, like cliched, as you would say, vacation in a long

[00:20:14] time where it was literally just the poolside, you know, kind of thing. Um, turns out they're

[00:20:20] really useful for clearing, for clearing the mind. Um, and so, yeah, on the plane back, um,

[00:20:28] most of the trip I spent with, with my phone in my, in my hot little hands, just like

[00:20:33] jotting down ideas. Um, and by the time we'd gone through the baggage carousel and I was in the Uber

[00:20:42] halfway through my Uber trip, I'd already got the name. Like I knew, I knew what it was. Um, and

[00:20:48] I knew I wanted to do things a little differently. I knew I wanted to lean into being small

[00:20:54] instead of having small man syndrome or small dog syndrome, you know, yapping like a little terrier,

[00:20:59] uh, and, and jumping up at the table, trying to get his scraps, actually being a bit more

[00:21:04] like a cat and curling up at the head of the table and just go, no, no, I like, I sit here now.

[00:21:09] This is, this is where I sit. I already belong here. Um, and so, yeah, I'm, I'm in the process

[00:21:17] now, you know, there's, there's, I've sort of launched in, in lowercase letters really way

[00:21:22] before I was ready, um, which is fun and interesting. Um, we have our first, uh, customer

[00:21:30] in that this is, uh, you know, uh, the podcast that's live to the world that is not made by me,

[00:21:35] um, that is, that is hosted and it's working. Um, there are, you know, still things to do,

[00:21:44] uh, but it's alive and it, yeah. And I did my first bit of press, uh, this week or it went

[00:21:53] out this week. Um, and so I think this, this maybe brings us onto ways that we're doing things

[00:22:00] differently. And over the last few weeks, I've been getting excited, but also,

[00:22:14] um, tired thinking about the, the, you know, the marketing for something like this and, and,

[00:22:21] and for any new projects, especially things like software projects, content marketing is the

[00:22:26] cheapest, uh, and, and, you know, most effective possibly way of getting your stuff out there. Um,

[00:22:33] to do it well, it takes a lot of time and skill and effort and time, um, and also time. And

[00:22:43] the way I was going to do that was creating a whole new podcast project and a newsletter and

[00:22:48] a whole lot of work. And I would go, I got really excited about it. I thought this is actually,

[00:22:52] it's a really good idea. It's something that people need. It's something that I care about.

[00:22:55] It's something that I can enjoy. And I got into it and started recording episodes. I made a theme

[00:23:00] tune. I bought the domain names, all the things I set up, you know, did all the artwork. I joined a

[00:23:08] podcast marketing, uh, the podcast marketing Academy so that I had as good. Yes. So that I

[00:23:16] had as good a start as possible to get this off the ground. And then over the last week,

[00:23:23] it's really hit me that it's all. And I know when I say it's all, I don't mean for everyone else,

[00:23:35] but certainly for me, it all just feels like effort. And when I say effort, I don't just mean

[00:23:41] hard work. I mean, it's, it's a lot of, it's a lot of, um, strokes to not swim very far.

[00:23:52] Yeah. Uh, each time. Yeah. And against the current. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um,

[00:24:00] and I'm now 40 and I would like to, to, I'd like my, I'd like to have decided that my life has

[00:24:10] started instead of waiting for it to start. Yeah. I'd like to actually go out and, and do things

[00:24:16] and have moments where I sit and play a video game on a Saturday, because that's all I have to do

[00:24:22] today. Um, because I, I've, I, you know, I, I haven't, I haven't decided that I have to have

[00:24:31] all of this effort be expended because that's the only way I know how to move the needle.

[00:24:36] What would happen if at least for a few months, I just followed my instinct and followed my

[00:24:43] intuition and followed my imagination and inspiration and just went, let's see what,

[00:24:49] let's see what's out there. Go on. Let's, let's just see, see what comes, see what appears,

[00:24:54] um, say yes, you know, and at least just for a bit stop. So, uh, one, one final, one final thing,

[00:25:04] and then I will, I will, you know, let you speak. Um, there is a thing from the hitchhiker's guide

[00:25:11] to the galaxy, because of course there is, um, hi, I'm a nerd where, uh, our heroes are in a

[00:25:18] spaceship and the spaceship is going up, down, backwards, every direction. And there are lights

[00:25:25] all over the place and sirens and, and the ship is very unhappy and the ship is complaining.

[00:25:30] And the, the two people who are piloting it, um, you know, fiddling with all these buttons and,

[00:25:36] um, suddenly everything stops and, and the, the ship sort of moves serenely.

[00:25:40] And someone in the back says, what happened? Did you suddenly make sense of the controls?

[00:25:42] And they say, no, we just stopped fiddling with them. Clearly the ship has a better

[00:25:46] idea of where it's going than we do. And I've been thinking about that for a while.

[00:25:52] Why, why don't I stop trying to steer the ship and actually let the ship steer itself?

[00:25:57] Because it might actually, it might have a sense of where, of where it wants to go.

[00:26:01] It's worked before, uh, Podiant was a side project. Um, I didn't do any marketing for it.

[00:26:10] Um, I just built a good product and I talked to people who I thought might be interested in it.

[00:26:17] You can call that marketing, like absolutely. You can call that marketing, but it doesn't feel

[00:26:20] like marketing. And that's the point. It's that push, um, the, the, it's that constant,

[00:26:26] we've got to push that I'm really resisting. Um, so yeah.

[00:26:31] Yeah. That's the same thing that happened with me with Rockstar is that, um, I, I didn't do

[00:26:36] any marketing either. When I, when I very first started, I, I printed up little flyers with the

[00:26:42] little tearaway tabs at the bottom of it and put them in, um, put them in some Fred Meyer,

[00:26:46] some local grocery stores, bulletin boards and stuff. And the only calls I got from that

[00:26:51] were from the yellow pages. Oh yes. From the white pages, the business things,

[00:26:56] Oh, you need to advertise obviously. And so, you know, I didn't do that ever again,

[00:27:01] but you know, I just, I just, uh, well, and I had a Craigslist ad, I think. Um,

[00:27:08] and, and I think I only did that once because, uh, you know, I got my first client and then,

[00:27:15] uh, word of mouth takes over and it's just, you know, uh, it, it, it, I, I never needed

[00:27:20] to advertise in that whole time. And I don't plan on that again. Like that, I felt that was a

[00:27:30] fantastic way to not swim against the tide of the current. And, uh, I have no interest

[00:27:37] in trying to sell people on what I'm doing. I plan on showing them, show, just demonstrating

[00:27:46] what I want to do and the people that want to find it will come. The people that want it or

[00:27:52] need it will be there to, to find, like, that's, that's my, uh, it might be a bit Pollyanna,

[00:27:59] I think. I don't, I don't know if that's the right term. Uh, but well, I think, I think we

[00:28:05] should, we should, we should pull on that thread because that's one of the, the, the pieces of

[00:28:10] advice that, that they, you know, we, we now 20 years on from, from the internet, uh, from the,

[00:28:16] from sort of web 2.0, we sort of said that, you know, the light has been, has been proven on that,

[00:28:21] you know, they, you can't say build it and they will come. But so I, I kind of want to know that

[00:28:26] what's, because you can do the same thing, you know, like what I was hearing there is thinking

[00:28:32] about, well, you, if we just say marketing is, is just telling people what you do and, and making

[00:28:40] them interested, perhaps, uh, making them interested, but, you know, telling people what

[00:28:44] you do and, and those who connect with it will connect with it. If we call that marketing,

[00:28:48] then the best way to market is what you did is, you know, I think the Craigslist ad is great

[00:28:54] actually, because, you know, I did something similar for, for Podiant, which is how really

[00:28:58] everything started. I wrote a post on Medium. It got, you know, found by one guy and the rest

[00:29:03] is history. Um, and, uh, you know, I think the same thing applies here, but then what you do

[00:29:09] is you do the stuff is you do the thing that it is that you do. And then from there, you do that

[00:29:16] and people like it and you do it well. And you encourage people to tell their friends and to

[00:29:21] tell people and say, listen, if this was helpful for you, then please tell other people and maybe

[00:29:26] you incentivize and, and yeah, and maybe that's marketing or maybe it's just running a good

[00:29:30] business. And yeah.

[00:29:31] Yeah. And yeah, for me, I guess, um, with, with the remodeling company,

[00:29:37] my biggest saving grace was Yelp, which was such a blessing and a curse. Like, um, yeah,

[00:29:43] I was constantly, I mean, you know, every, every, you know, so many businesses, so many people right

[00:29:48] now are, are at the whims of what anybody can write in a starred review on the internet. But like,

[00:29:55] um, I, you know, I, I got super lucky and fortunate that I had a bunch of good people

[00:30:02] that I worked for that, that wrote good reviews. And when I was starting out doing remodeling,

[00:30:09] um, Yelp was pretty new, especially Yelp for contractors. Like it was mostly just, um.

[00:30:17] Yeah. I'd always associated with like restaurants and cafes and yeah.

[00:30:20] Yeah. Um, but they had, you know, they had good Google, uh.

[00:30:25] Google juice.

[00:30:26] Juice. Yeah. Whatever one of the terms is. And, and so when people would search for

[00:30:32] remodeling Portland, whatever, and the Yelp page would come up and it would show five stars because

[00:30:39] I had like three to five, five stars early on. And that got me a lot of work, got me a lot of new

[00:30:45] clients and that, that really helped. Um, so, you know, thinking about that, it's like, okay,

[00:30:53] well, yeah, I'm going to want to try and mimic that probably. Um, and, and, and I can definitely

[00:30:59] think of ways to do that and getting people around me that are interested in it. Cause I have a small

[00:31:04] community here. Um, and that's another interesting difference between your, your startup and mine is,

[00:31:10] is mine's going to be pretty local. Although I will have things that could be, um, distance

[00:31:17] for sure, but primarily I'm going to be local. I'm, I'm, my idea is to have,

[00:31:23] eventually have my own studio that's built up and has like a yoga area, sauna area and, and, and

[00:31:31] coaching areas and, and, uh, this kind of oasis I want to build for people to come to and

[00:31:37] connect with themselves. But, um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's going to be interesting to,

[00:31:42] to think about the different ways to, to market and tell people about it.

[00:31:47] I guess I could do a podcast about it. Cause that is the way that you build an audience.

[00:31:52] I heard this from, uh, from the, uh, I was going to say, I heard it from the great rest. I didn't

[00:31:57] know. And it's exactly the opposite of your advice. And so I don't want to put the opposite words in

[00:32:02] your mouth. I was going through. Um, so one of the things that I'm doing at the moment is

[00:32:11] contemplating, seriously contemplating, uh, getting rid of all sort of my past brand names.

[00:32:18] Um, and just being Mark, um, instead of being origin, uh, I mean, you know,

[00:32:25] Bramble has to have a name cause it's a thing. I can't call it Mark.

[00:32:28] Um, where are you? Where are you hosting? Oh, it's on Mark.

[00:32:32] Yeah, it's on, it's on Mark. Um, just over here on my left arm.

[00:32:38] So, but everything else, um, origin podcast services has been the name of my business or

[00:32:43] just origin as I, as I call it. Uh, that's been the name of my business for the last two years.

[00:32:47] Um, and I've had all sorts of businesses, business names before never have I actually

[00:32:54] just used my name. Um, and it's weird to sort of contemplate why that is and try and connect with

[00:33:03] it. And there's, there's always been something, some kind of aversion from using just from it,

[00:33:12] just being me, I think. Um, and, and connecting with me and especially as part of what I'm doing

[00:33:18] is I'm mixing in all of the weird and, you know, varied things that I do making music that has no

[00:33:24] consequence. Like, you know, it's not like, if you want to buy a track, that's great, but that's

[00:33:30] not, you know, what I'm banking on. And then there's the kid's book and other bits of writing

[00:33:35] and weird little video game toys that I've made and all those kinds of things. I want them all to

[00:33:41] be part of the same place and you can engage with those and then think, okay, well, I want to work

[00:33:47] with this guy to help me make a thing or to help me just be alongside me when I'm making my thing

[00:33:53] week in week out and no one seems to be engaging with it. Like, you know, what can we do there?

[00:33:57] Um, and all that kind of stuff is interesting, but it's, it's, it's all, you know, just being

[00:34:02] that, that one person. What does that, how does that ring, you know, for you as someone again,

[00:34:10] who's had a brand name, uh, with Rockstar, what are you sort of thinking it's going to be Brendan?

[00:34:19] Um, you know, is that something that you've, you've given any thought to?

[00:34:23] I actually haven't. Um, you, uh, I love, I love how fast you come up with names for things and

[00:34:31] it's always just like, so spot on. It's so, I love the names, like even for this podcast,

[00:34:37] it was like, oh, perfect. Um, don't even have to think about it. Just yes. Uh, and

[00:34:45] like Rockstar came to me pretty easily because I was just, uh, you know, I was just remote. I was,

[00:34:50] I was doing handyman services on the side. I was, I was, uh, um, I was an electrician

[00:34:54] working for a shop and they, um, uh, the recession was hitting. And so there was fewer and fewer

[00:35:03] electrical jobs to do. And so I was just picking up more and more side gigs. And eventually that

[00:35:08] was my full-time job was side gigs and there was no electrical. And I was like, well,

[00:35:12] I mean, here I am, I guess I should make a company. And, um, uh, at the time being young

[00:35:19] and dumb and naive about, um, uh, what I was doing to my body, I was drinking a ton

[00:35:26] of Rockstar energy drinks. And then also, um, I, I would listen to music cause I hadn't discovered

[00:35:33] podcasts yet. I would listen to music while I was working and I would, I would be singing along

[00:35:37] because I just can't help it. If there's music playing and I know any of the tone and the melody

[00:35:43] or the lyrics I'm going to be singing. And, uh, like I had, I had multiple clients tell me,

[00:35:52] are you going to be a Rockstar? Cause like what we, this is, this is great. And, and so it just,

[00:35:59] the, the name just kind of fell into me. And, and then I love the alliteration of the RR. Um,

[00:36:05] and, and so that, that was just easy. And I'm, you know, hoping that something similar will

[00:36:12] happen with this. I don't, um, I don't particularly like the sound of Brendan,

[00:36:18] the shaman, uh, that doesn't, that's not ringing true to me. Um, uh, but I'm, I'm thinking that

[00:36:26] something, something will come up. Uh, and I'm at this point, there's so many things that have

[00:36:33] happened for me in my life recently, including this podcast where everything just fell into place

[00:36:41] because I am just, I'm, I, what I'm feeling is just open to the universe. I'm just like,

[00:36:46] I'm here. Um, this is what I want to do. This is on my manifestation list. This is,

[00:36:52] this is what I'm calling in. Um, I feel expanded. I feel, I know other people are out there doing

[00:36:59] it. Other people are just people like me. I'm just a person. They're just a person.

[00:37:03] They can have it. I can have it. Um, and I, I feel, uh, just accepting and knowing that

[00:37:11] what I need is going to come. And I feel, I guess, I guess that's faith, but it doesn't feel like

[00:37:19] faith, like faith. It almost seems a little bit like worrying, like, uh, that there is any

[00:37:24] possibility that it wouldn't happen, but you have faith that it will anyway.

[00:37:28] Um, and maybe that's just, uh, I think, I think that's a little bit of baggage. I,

[00:37:34] I carry from my mother's faith, but anyways, um, I, I, I feel secure. I feel like

[00:37:43] it's going to happen and I am excited to see it unfold. And so the name I had not given any

[00:37:50] thought, and I probably will more now that you ask, maybe we can talk about that next week, but,

[00:37:56] um, uh, I'm, I'm excited to find out, uh, and, and tell you all about it when I do.

[00:38:04] There's an interesting phenomenon, phenomenon, um, around new projects. And I think I am

[00:38:15] guilty of this myself, um, that when you tell people about something that you haven't done yet

[00:38:23] or that you're planning to do, you get the dopamine hit from talking about it and you get the, you

[00:38:29] know, the, the hit of the project without actually doing any of the work. Uh, and that can have some,

[00:38:33] some knock on effects. That sounded like that resonated. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No, I, I get so

[00:38:40] excited about things. I get so excited about ideas and, uh, and I, I definitely talk about

[00:38:46] them way too early and I'm like, Oh, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to,

[00:38:50] I've been, I've been, I've had this idea. I've had this, um, this long-term plan of a,

[00:38:59] a sort of compound. I mean, really it would just be like the, the place I want to live.

[00:39:04] I want to have a place that's a little bit farther out from the city. Like right now I'm,

[00:39:09] I'm in the state, I'm in Portland and, uh, you know, someplace that's maybe 15 miles out,

[00:39:18] 20 miles out that, that I've got a decent chunk of land, maybe like 10 acres. And

[00:39:26] there's some sort of water that goes through the property so that I could make ponds or lakes or,

[00:39:33] or use that water for power or something. Um, there's a decent amount of space that I could

[00:39:40] set up a shop and like build tiny homes, certain amount of space that those tiny

[00:39:46] homes could be set up and used as either rentals or, um, uh, or, or, or showcase because, uh,

[00:39:54] cause tiny home building was my previous big, big new stage in life. That was going to be

[00:40:00] the next thing that I was going to do. And it still might be, I'm not writing that off. I,

[00:40:04] I love tiny homes. I love the design. I love the, the, the rethinking of housing and the

[00:40:12] minimalism of it, the, the aesthetics of it, the, the creativity and, and, and, and again,

[00:40:20] to reiterate, to reiterate it, the design, the thoughtfulness that's put into the,

[00:40:25] the use of space and the use of anything that's part of it. That's, that's so important to me.

[00:40:34] And, uh, and then you, I also had an even bigger pie in the sky ideas about having,

[00:40:39] um, uh, using that water, pumping it through a solar water heater that I could, that I've

[00:40:47] designed in my head to make, um, man-made hot springs pools and, uh, to carve out a space,

[00:40:58] uh, for, uh, for an amphitheater that, that could have the hot springs flowing through that. So you

[00:41:09] could be in your hot springs listening to at the amphitheater. Like I had so many cool ideas. Um,

[00:41:15] and you know, they might still happen in like 15 years, but it's probably not.

[00:41:20] It's, it's probably just a fantastic idea that I'm always going to cherish in my mind.

[00:41:27] Well, what it sounds to me, cause I was thinking this earlier when you described

[00:41:33] what you wanted to build with the studio.

[00:41:35] Yeah. That's much more likely where I'm going to be putting a lot of these cool ideas

[00:41:40] in a smaller scale that's more approachable to people.

[00:41:43] Sure. But what I get the vibe of is really a retreat center.

[00:41:52] Um, especially I was thinking with the tiny homes, because how cool would that be for a

[00:41:58] group of individuals to come together? Maybe it's a cohort, maybe, maybe, you know, it's,

[00:42:05] it's another organization who want to bring their people to you. Maybe it's a group of people you've

[00:42:09] brought together, um, to, to, to, to do this, come and join you for a week, um, you know,

[00:42:15] of reconnecting with themselves, rediscovering things, um, detoxing, you know, any, any,

[00:42:21] anything like that and giving people these homes that they can spend a week in.

[00:42:26] Uh, and then also these, these other sort of healing things like the hot springs and all

[00:42:30] that kind of stuff. And the, you know, put on a bit of music, like it's actually not dissimilar

[00:42:34] in, in some of the circles that I've, I've moved in over the last few years.

[00:42:38] Um, you know, I go to my business hippie festival, um, and they have a band on a night

[00:42:46] on the Friday night. Uh, and there's tents with other stuff going on. There's, there's music,

[00:42:51] there's food, there's, uh, massaging, there's, uh, lakes. You can do some cold water swimming

[00:42:57] or wild swimming. There's a hot tub, there's a sauna, and it's all just in a field.

[00:43:01] Uh, and they, they, they put it up, uh, and it's there for three days and then they tear it all

[00:43:06] down. Um, and I don't know, there's, there's something really, yeah, like that's, you could

[00:43:14] do that. Yeah. Yeah, I can. And honestly, that is, yes, the combination of these two dreams is,

[00:43:22] is literally the dream. Like that, that would be a big, a big, uh,

[00:43:31] a major thought has been that this would be the, the compound, the, the, the buildup would be,

[00:43:39] uh, a resort of some sort. Like people would come and stay in the tiny homes.

[00:43:44] Like I would, we could put on festivals. Um, like I'm, I'm over the past three years, I've been

[00:43:50] super into dance music and dance and the dance music, the section of dance music I, I like,

[00:43:57] um, puts on a yearly festival in, uh, the Washington state desert. Uh, it's called

[00:44:06] the Gorge Amphitheater. And it, it, it's this incredible space that's overlooking, uh, a section

[00:44:14] of a river. And there's just like nothing but desert, nothing, but nothing, uh, anywhere you

[00:44:20] can see, except for this big grassy lawn that just slopes down to this perfect stage.

[00:44:28] And the, the festival that they put on, um, it's called the Above and Beyond

[00:44:34] Group Therapy Weekender. And it's a yoga mindfulness dance, uh, festival. And it's

[00:44:41] just, it's, it's, it's perfect. It's perfect for me. It's perfect for everybody that comes.

[00:44:47] We all love it to death. And I mean, more or less what I want to do is just make that as my home.

[00:44:54] And, and I want, I want to live in that all the time. I want, I want the mindfulness. I want the,

[00:44:59] the meditations on the yoga. I want the dance music around me always. And I want other people

[00:45:05] to come and enjoy that too, because I don't want to just be dancing. I mean, I love dancing alone.

[00:45:10] I do it every day, but I, like, I want, I want to share this, this love and this vision and this

[00:45:17] place and the serenity. Um, and I think I can do that. And I think I can, I can make a play and I,

[00:45:25] you know, and so, yeah, so it'd be the idea of building a bunch of tiny homes, which I

[00:45:29] love and people love, people would love to stay in tiny homes. And then, you know,

[00:45:35] there could be like a, a festival going on. It could be, you know, with actual acts that come in

[00:45:42] and out, but, or people could just be using the space as a retreat, as a, as a cool down, as a,

[00:45:49] uh, a rock relaxing getaway and, and, and probably a bunch of other types of,

[00:45:55] um, uses for the space as well. And in addition to my housing, but yeah, that's,

[00:46:03] that's definitely the long-term. That's the, that's the big goal. It feels, it feels realistic

[00:46:10] and, uh, something else, not, not unrealistic, but ambitious. Yeah. It, it does, it does feel

[00:46:21] ambitious. That's a great word for it. One of the things that, uh, I think prompted us to, um,

[00:46:26] have this end up having this discussion is something that I put on one of my little ramble

[00:46:31] casts, which it's, it's weird. I, I don't know that I have a, like a long-term vision like that.

[00:46:39] I don't, you know, I don't really have, I never really have had dreams. I weirdly enough, uh,

[00:46:46] in my, my former therapist asked me about my bucket list at one point. And I was like, I don't,

[00:46:53] I don't have one. Um, and I started trying to work on one for whatever reason. I, I sort of,

[00:46:59] I don't have those big long-term things and I think that's really interesting, but I, I, I have,

[00:47:04] I set out these, these little ideas for things that are sort of, you know, medium term, I guess,

[00:47:10] like five years or whatever. Um, and the difficulty I have is that I mess up the perspective. And so

[00:47:17] if you think about the artwork for this podcast, if you, if you take out your phone and have a look,

[00:47:21] um, it's, it's this, it's this road and, and, you know, convergence, meaning those, those,

[00:47:26] the two lines on the road converging to one. And what I so often do in my mind without

[00:47:32] realizing it is I take that idea and bring the compress that whole distance. And so everything

[00:47:43] becomes a bit like, um, like a theater set. If you, you know, if you walk alongside, you know,

[00:47:52] just to sidle up against the theater set, you actually see how it's two dimensional.

[00:47:57] And it's not this big, long stretching road. It's actually just a piece of card that's been

[00:48:01] painted. And I sort of do that. And so what that ends up doing is this sort of five year timeline

[00:48:07] gets compressed and I become impatient and I want it to happen now when I don't understand

[00:48:11] why it's not, not happening now. And all these milestones, I can see them right there because

[00:48:15] of course I've brought them right close to me instead of what they are far off. And, and it's

[00:48:21] one of the things I think I've really struggled with and, and it's kind of led me to, to thinking

[00:48:27] again about what would happen if I, if I stopped, you know, looking for this map or stopped looking

[00:48:34] for the next mile marker, um, and, and just, you know, let, let the universe happen. Um, and I,

[00:48:42] I like that we've got these two different approaches here because yeah, that is a dream.

[00:48:47] And I think I've, I've almost never, never dared to, I think there's something in there about like

[00:48:54] not even daring to dream. And I think that's interesting. Like

[00:48:57] you're daring to dream and I think that's awesome. Yeah. I, uh, man, I, I,

[00:49:04] I can't say that I relate to that, that flattening, but that's such a, uh, visceral analogy that I

[00:49:11] can understand it really well. Um, that's, that's, that's really interesting to think about.

[00:49:17] Do you have any fears around this not working? I think I did when I said to myself,

[00:49:28] this has to work. And that's been part of the thing with the, this, this podcast, the,

[00:49:34] the former one that, uh, I'm, you know, I'm not cancelling, but I'm putting on pause

[00:49:38] just like ListNV. I can't bear to think that ListNV is probably my favourite ever show.

[00:49:43] I can't bear to think that it's, it's gone away. It's just on pause because I love it. Um,

[00:49:50] I think because I decided that it, like I said, with the previous podcast, that it had to work,

[00:49:58] that, that puts the pressure on because it's then like, well, this is, this has got to work.

[00:50:02] This is the next thing. Do you thrive on that pressure or do you, is that, does that hinder?

[00:50:07] Well, oh, that's interesting. Actually. I think I have done, and I think it's, it's,

[00:50:13] it's fuelled me. I don't think thrive is necessarily the word because

[00:50:17] that would suggest it's kind of nourishing. Uh, and I think it's, it's a bit more

[00:50:23] depleting over time because it is, it's this constant, it's this constant voice of should,

[00:50:28] it's a, it's a, it's a big should. Um, if I, uh, lean down here, there is a, um, piece of,

[00:50:38] of, uh, there was an illustration that I got as part of my 40th birthday, uh, present, and it is

[00:50:46] a depiction of me as if I were a Simpsons. Um, and there's my, my two nephews and my two cats

[00:50:54] and my, uh, the people who made this for me, the people who commissioned it are very lovely

[00:51:00] and loving, um, and supportive. The problem is when I looked at this,

[00:51:07] it, I, I, I nearly cried. It kind of broke my heart because the logo that's on my t-shirt

[00:51:14] is for one of these projects that had to work because it was the next big thing, next big thing.

[00:51:20] And I had to kill it off last year because it just wasn't working.

[00:51:25] It was, you know, it's such a lovely thing to be, you know, to be so grateful for this,

[00:51:28] for this gift. Um, but also, oh, that's a constant. And, you know, that might be why I haven't

[00:51:36] hung it up yet. Um, because I love the sentiment behind it and I love the support behind it,

[00:51:42] but it's hard to have your failure almost literally on your chest because this was what

[00:51:49] I thought I was going to be. I thought I was going to be an educator. I thought I was going to,

[00:51:53] um, produce and make content that was going to teach people how to make the best podcast

[00:51:58] that they possibly can. And the universe went, no, you're not. Um, good try, but let's, uh,

[00:52:06] let's, let's think again. Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah. Restart the game over. Um, and you know,

[00:52:15] I got into debt and, and all, all sorts of things. And there, you know, there are other,

[00:52:21] other factors that, that, uh, made it sort of not work. Um, and you know, hindsight can always tell

[00:52:28] you, here are some reasons why, why it didn't work. And it's like, that's great, but could

[00:52:32] have used those before. Um, so, but a lot of that, the difficulty there was that pressure of, well,

[00:52:41] this is the next thing. This is what I'm doing. This has got to work and it's got to work because

[00:52:46] you get into this like Ouroboros snake eating itself thing of, I'm trying to make this work,

[00:52:51] which means I'm not like, I'm meeting all my client obligations, but I'm not

[00:52:57] really working that hard and getting new clients because I'm building this new thing.

[00:53:01] And so now it's got to work because I'm not bringing in any new business. And so it just,

[00:53:06] it becomes this, this millstone and this, this horrible, you know, it kind of becomes a little

[00:53:11] bit toxic. Um, and so for me, because I'm not putting that pressure on Bramble,

[00:53:20] it it's, I'm letting it be a side project for now. And I'm also letting it be a home for,

[00:53:26] for, you know, where I keep my podcasts and a way for me to do podcasting in the way that I want to

[00:53:31] do it. Um, and in the way that I think certain things should be done and make sense to me. Um,

[00:53:39] and because it's that it's sort of already is sort of already works. Um, if I can get to my,

[00:53:48] you know, target number of customers, then absolutely it would have worked, but

[00:53:53] it's only a failure if I, cause a side project can't really be a failure. It's only a failure

[00:54:00] if you, if you decide this has to be everything, this has to be the next thing. This has to work.

[00:54:08] This is my escape module. Um, this is my parachute on the way on the way out.

[00:54:14] And if then the parachute fails to deploy, then it's a failure. Uh, otherwise it's just a piece

[00:54:19] of canvas. It's, it's only by making it the parachute and by putting that by assigning

[00:54:27] it that, that you then make it, you know, this thing that can fail.

[00:54:32] I have this, I have this thought about, about all that. Um, and, and I've kind of alluded to it

[00:54:39] before because of, I've talked about how, how serene I feel and how, how open to the universe I

[00:54:44] feel, but like right now I have no fear around success or failure. Failure isn't a possibility.

[00:54:55] It's an inevitability. Like eventually it's entropy. Yeah, sure. It's going to stop. Like,

[00:55:02] you know, and so unless we, we define success to include the inevitable ending,

[00:55:10] which is a beautiful thought. I don't, I don't really want to do that right now,

[00:55:15] but I, I, you know, I could do that in the future maybe. But like, there is no beginning

[00:55:19] without an end to define it. There's no black without a white to contrast it. There's no success

[00:55:24] without failure to compare it to. And so to me, there's no, there's nothing to fear. There's only

[00:55:31] to do. I like that a lot. Um, yeah, I, I, yeah, that makes me think about, you know, something

[00:55:39] like what I'm building at some point it is going to not be a thing anymore for a variety of reasons.

[00:55:47] It might be because the, the, the person I've passed it down to after I've died, you know, uh,

[00:55:53] once you want someone else to run it or once or whatever, or it's, it's given over to the people

[00:55:59] and it, uh, it becomes something on a new internet and it's, it's distributed. It's peer to peer.

[00:56:05] And it just, it doesn't need a single server anymore, or it could die, you know, for another

[00:56:10] reason. Um, but I love that failure or an, an, an end is inevitable. The thing that you've made

[00:56:20] is finite as we are finite. And so yeah, don't like don't stress it too much. And I, I'm, I, I'm,

[00:56:30] I'm aware because like, you know, I would hope there are all sorts of different people who might

[00:56:36] listen to this. I'm aware that cause I've, I've bridled against this sometimes before of like,

[00:56:44] that's all very well and good. Um, but you know, I'm trying to make a thing or I'm trying to build

[00:56:49] and it's got to work or whatever. But I think we're trying to come at this from having been in

[00:56:54] that position before and having realized that actually doesn't help. And I also know again,

[00:57:02] it's like, yeah, well you can say that or whatever, but it's true. Um, caring, really

[00:57:11] wanting something to happen, really being earnest and putting all of your effort and all of those

[00:57:18] eggs in that basket and all of those, and it mattering so much and it having to, none of that

[00:57:25] is actually fuel for the project. None of that actually makes it, makes the boat go faster to,

[00:57:32] to quote a book. Like none of that actually helps. Um, worrying about it, thinking about it,

[00:57:39] just like it, it doesn't. Um, what helps is, is the right, is, is right action.

[00:57:45] Yes. Good words. Which is a Buddhist thing, isn't it? You would know. Um, yeah. And it's, it's

[00:57:55] a right action. I think of with, uh, with the program to be magnetic, they have it part of,

[00:58:02] or, um, yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Action. That does sound Buddhist.

[00:58:08] That's, I think that's what we're coming down to now is, is, uh, as we, we, you know,

[00:58:12] contemplate bringing this to a close, um, is I think what we're trying to figure out is

[00:58:19] how we can navigate after having spent time navigating things that

[00:58:25] may in some ways be a bit more traditional, or we've had the sort of a monkey on our back

[00:58:31] that tells us we should be doing things more traditionally, having known when that's worked

[00:58:35] for us and when that hasn't. Um, it's now about looking at what happens when we do things the

[00:58:43] Mark way or the Brendan way, um, which is to say your way, um, what, you know, what, what would

[00:58:49] happen and that can only really work if you don't put this tremendous amount of pressure on yourself.

[00:58:56] If you don't decide this has to work, if you, if you don't put that on you, then I think you can

[00:59:04] do it your way because to quote one of my favorite songs by Louis Armstrong, we have all the time in

[00:59:11] the world. Um, and it doesn't have to be, we don't have to rush because, and then we, you know,

[00:59:22] one last thought is, is for me anyway, is, uh, the Oliver, Oliver Berkman book, 10,000 weeks

[00:59:29] was a subtle revelation for me. And it kind of talked about how we don't have actually that

[00:59:35] many weeks in our lives. Um, and if we spend all our time going, I'll be happy when, um,

[00:59:43] I'll be happy when I've launched Bramble. I'll be happy when Bramble gets 400 customers. I'll

[00:59:48] be happy when Bramble gets in this news thing. Like, and I've been there, absolutely been there.

[00:59:54] And I bet you have as well. Oh yeah. Not at all. You got to live in the moment. You got to enjoy

[01:00:00] this. You got to enjoy the building of it. Enjoy the thought of it and enjoy and revel in it and

[01:00:07] be, be in the moment. Yes. Yeah. Cause you're only going to get this chance to build it once.

[01:00:12] Well, once you rebuild it again, but that's not the, not the point,

[01:00:17] but this thing that you're building right now, this thing that's happening only happens once

[01:00:21] this moment is only happening right now. And that's amazing. Um, do we, uh, do we have time

[01:00:27] for a little bit of homework? Oh, please. Um, and this is, uh, this is pretty far out of left field,

[01:00:33] but I think that this, this could be something cool to give us a common language as we, um,

[01:00:41] as we work on this, on these separate projects together. And, and it is, it is pretty,

[01:00:48] uh, a step away from what we have been talking about, but I think it can relate over,

[01:00:53] over time. I think it will relate. Do you know your Enneagram number?

[01:00:58] Nine. That's me saying it is nine. I don't know in German.

[01:01:03] My number is nine as well. Oh man. I, I, I've been wondering about your numbers so much. And

[01:01:09] honestly, nine was high on my list, but I couldn't, I couldn't say for sure. Oh, that's incredible.

[01:01:14] Okay. So we're two nines. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. Uh, well then, then I don't have any

[01:01:19] homework for you. I was going to tell you to, uh, to check out, uh, the, we can do hard things

[01:01:24] podcast. Uh, and, and they're, um, they have a two part episode, uh, with Suzanne Stabile.

[01:01:32] And she, uh, lays out all the different Enneagram numbers from the traditional standpoint, not the

[01:01:40] current, very trendy Instagram standpoint. And it is such a beautiful way. Yeah. It's ancient. Yeah.

[01:01:49] It's such a beautiful way to understand not only yourself, but the people around you

[01:01:54] and relationships. And, um, Margaret and I really got into it as we were driving around Scotland.

[01:02:01] And what was really beautiful for us was that like in this, in this six week vacation that we took,

[01:02:09] that was, you know, a lot of us constant time concentrated together where for some people that

[01:02:15] could be like at, at, at week five, you could kind of be getting sick of each other. You could be

[01:02:20] bickering, you could be having trouble and that kind of thing. We grew so much closer together.

[01:02:26] We understood each other like, oh, that's why you do this. And like, oh, you're doing that because

[01:02:32] you care so much. And not only because you care, but like you doing this is really hard for you

[01:02:41] and you do it anyway. And that is so beautiful. Um, and oh, you're struggling in this because it

[01:02:48] is really difficult. That's not part of your personality. That's not the way your personality

[01:02:52] works. And, and like knowing yourself and knowing the people around you, I think is so, um,

[01:03:00] it opens up compassion just infinitely. Um, at least it, it does, it does for me in my mind.

[01:03:09] And so, um, for anyone listening, I, I highly recommend checking that out, finding your number,

[01:03:14] finding the, you know, thinking about the number of the people around you and don't tell them what

[01:03:18] you think you're not, you think their number is, but have them find it out for themselves.

[01:03:23] And, um, and, and, and, and don't just take a quiz, really think about what each number is and,

[01:03:31] and, uh, and, and decide it for yourself because only because it's based on intention. It's based

[01:03:36] on what you're thinking and what you want and not what your actions are. So nobody can tell

[01:03:42] somebody else what their number is, but I am also a nine, I'm a nine wing eight. And, um, I, uh,

[01:03:49] I love the Enneagram. It's, it's been one of my favorite things over the past couple of months.

[01:03:53] So, well, there you go. Um, on that note, um, we are, this is an emergent process,

[01:03:59] which means we don't have a clever sign off. Um, but we will be here again, uh, next week.

[01:04:06] And, um, you can find us, uh, on the internet, uh, at convergencepod.com. Uh, and if you'd like

[01:04:14] to know more about us and what we're doing, what we're making, um, then, uh, you'll find

[01:04:19] ways to follow us, uh, there, um, until next week, Brendan, um, take really very good care

[01:04:28] of yourself. Likewise. And as always correct me if I'm wrong.

[01:04:37] Oh,

[01:04:55] and I felt great. Yeah.